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Cerner predicted to replace GE in London

Tags: A   Accenture   Acute   BT   Cerner   CfH   Choice   Fujitsu   GE Healthcare   Granger   iS   iSoft   London   Millennium   Newham   PAS   PAS   Solution   South   US  

13 Jun 2006

An analyst report from the US has said that there is a high probability that clinical software firm Cerner will replace GE Healthcare as main the supplier of clinical systems to the NHS in London.

If a change does occur it is likely to initially result in further delivery delays to modernising NHS IT systems in the capital, as part of the late running £6.2bn NHS National Programme for IT (NPfIT).

BT is understood to have been examining options for a replacement for IDX since the beginning of the year due to the difficulties in delivering the system to NHS trusts in the capital. In the past 30 months BT has implemented the software at just one hospital trust.

The report from Leerink Swann, a Boston-based analyst house that focuses on healthcare, states: "We believe that BT and GE will amicably part ways, with BT paying GE to walk away from its PAS contract in the London region. BT will then partner with Cerner, allowing for a more rapid deployment of systems in this politically sensitive region."

The report adds, "After our visit we believe there is a >90% chance Cerner wins at least one additional regional contract with the possibility existing for the company to have four of the regional contracts when all is said is done."

On the timing of any move the report says: "We now expect an announcement by either Cerner and/or BT/GE by mid-July, if not sooner."

George Hill, author of the report told EHI that it was based on multiple senior sources from the London NHS and industry. "They were people dealing directly with the project in a position to give me detailed information," said Hill.

He acknowledged, however, that he hadn't spoken to BT or GE. Hill told EHI that the report and the predictions it makes are based on interviews carried out with multiple sources close to the project.

The possibility of a change in clinical software supplier in the capital is lent weight by well placed anonymous NHS and industry sources who have told E-Health Insider that BT has been carrying out discussions to find a replacement for IDX since the beginning of the year.

One trust IT director in London told EHI: "I think it's more certain than a rumour." He pointed to recent indecision and lay-offs in London as an indication of the way the way things were pointing.

Another London NHS IT director said he was now being told that a deal with Cerner was now extremely likely. Asked how likely, he said: "I'd put your mortgage on it".

An IT director from a London primary care trust, meanwhile, told EHI of the planning blight he faced. He said BT had indicated a switch in suppliers was likely for the past few months, and promised an announcement by the end of April and then the end of May.

With three trusts in London – Chelsea and Westminster, Queen Mary's, Sidcup and University College London Hospitals – all using IDX Lastword and Carecast it is perhaps more unlikely that GE would be entirely supplanted in the capital.

One very senior NHS executive told EHI that he believed what was more likely than a replacement of IDX was a greater choice of systems. "I personally think we will begin to see more of a mixed economy. A lot of trust CEOs were very irritated that they had been told to implement a single solution."

Since buying IDX Corporation in January this year GE Healthcare has been the main sub-contractor to BT in London in the £6.2 billion NHS National Programme for IT. In December 2003 BT was awarded a ten-year £996m contract to upgrade NHS IT systems across the capital.

To date, however, BT has only made limited progress in the acute hospital sector, installing just one instance of IDX's Carecast at Queen Mary's, Sidcup NHS Trust. BT says it plans to implement the system at further hospitals by the end of the year but has yet to name the sites.

One industry source told EHI: "There is not one project in the London cluster where there is a delivery date for IDX Carecast." The source added: "If I was in BT's shoes I'd be cautious until I was sure that Cerner could deliver a working product.

Sources indicate that GE has been seeking to renegotiate elements of the contract with BT it inherited when it purchased IDX. This is understood to include ensuring the contract provides a more certain revenue stream and a strong preference for providing 'thick' local solutions, rather than systems principally hosted remotely.

One source told EHI: "Either Richard Granger [chief executive of NHS Connecting for Health] will be told to pay GE as they go, or BT find another partner." They added that any switch to Cerner as the solution provider could run into legal problems with IBM, which bid unsuccessfully offering Cerner for the capital in the 2003 procurement.

In addition to a possible change in London, the report says there is an outside chance that Cerner may wind up replacing iSoft in the two Accenture regions – the North-east and East. The probability of Cerner winding up with four regions is put at less than 20%.

Hill said: "I don't think it's any surprise that Accenture would also look at alternatives given the difficulties it’s experienced with iSoft. There are only so many other vendors out there Accenture would work with."

Cerner was brought in as the replacement for IDX by Fujitsu, the prime contractor in the Southern region of NPfIT, in June last year. Fujitsu made the switch after it lost confidence in the BT-led and IDX-based 'common solution' that was intended to be delivered across the South and London. Should London now move to Cerner the possibility of a 'common solution' is again raised.

To date Cerner's Millennium clinical software has only been installed in the Southern region at one site, the Nuffield Orthopaedic Hospital NHS Trust, in a project that has attracted a lot of adverse publicity. Cerner's software is also in use at Newham and Homerton Hospital NHS Trust in London.

EHI had been unable to get a comment from GE Healthcare at the time of publication. Cerner referred questions back to NHS Connecting for Health, which said that it had contracts with suppliers to ensure delivery. "We are working with suppliers to delivery systems that will benefit NHS staff and patients and we don't comment on rumour or speculation."

Asked whether it had approached CfH about potentially changing its supplier, BT told EHI that its policy was never to comment on speculation. "Tempted as we are to respond on this occasion, we are not making an exception except to say that Leerink Swann have never spoken to BT about this. You would think they might since they are talking about our contracts.”

An official spokesperson for BT further told EHI: "We've got a plan and we're getting on. The plan is GE but any world-class business looks at how it can ensure delivery and that includes alternatives."

Asked whether BT had signed an initial memorandum of understanding with Cerner in May, the spokesperson said: "I'm afraid we don't comment on contract specifics."

© 2006 E-HEALTH-MEDIA LTD. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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1

Oh fantastic

13 Jun 06 12:16

Picking one of the incumbents (who is struggling enough to deliver in their own patch) does not sound like a smart move to me. Part of the reason the South moved was I think because of the complexity of delivering across 2 clusters, and that IDX was unable to serve both.

And with only 1 site live so far in the South (after a "white knuckle ride"), and clouds on the horizon, diluting the implementation team further sounds very risky to me.

At what point will it be recognised that this has been a really rubbish way to mess up everyone's life ? The LSP model has not worked for the NHS.

But a potential mix of systems unpicks the dubious buisness case for this centralised approach. There is so much more that could have been achieved through locally focussed projects.


2

Really?!

13 Jun 06 13:46

So let’s get this straight:

IDX has a spine compliant system, deployed successfully (if painfully) to 3 large Trusts and now has the might of GE behind it to back it up…. and BT want to swap that for Cerner, who aren’t spine compliant and have one ‘successful’ roll-out to a small, one-specialty hospital? (And a legacy system at Newham)

Not to mention that GE/IDX are presumably set-up to delivery in London (resources/ offices/structure etc) and Cerner would have to start from the ground up, recruiting people, training them up etc. And considering Cerner have just ‘drained’ the recruitment market in order to ramp up for their Southern Cluster responsibilities, do we really think there are actually enough resources available to hire?

Perhaps, as your writer alludes to, this is more about BT and GE having painful contract renegotiations – I would suspect that IDX was probably quite submissive to BT but that GE, being much larger, is calling the shots now. Is it really just a case of ‘BT will have to take Cerner because GE would prefer not to play rather than play by BT rules?’

Either way, the next few weeks/months are going to be interesting!


3

Poorly informed

13 Jun 06 15:09

The comment from the previous poster is poorly informed. Cerner have implemented Millenium to both Homerton and Newham Acute Trusts in London. I'm uncertain how a big bang implementation of a completely new system including PAS, Casenote tracking, A&E Modules, RIS etc. etc. can be called a legacy system.

If you read the information about the problems with the implementation in the Southern Cluster you'll see they were primarily issues with the data conversion and training of staff. Not the system, according to the organisation involved itself.


4

Real Concern

13 Jun 06 19:27

Cerner bid for the London Local Service Provider Contract working with IBM. This could have been a marriage. IBM know how to develop software although software development is slow and they know it. Cerner needed to understand the UK model and industry of health care.

After some 30 months of indecision it would, IMHO, have been better that the contract went to IBM. Unfortunately IBM wanted to do the work on commercial terms and conditions and were not accepted as the winner. A question arises whether BT have the capability to do what IBM could and would have done over these lost 30 months.


5

Poorly Informed

14 Jun 06 12:31

Could the person adding the comment 'Poorly informed' please clarify what he means by the term 'completely new system' as we have been previously informed on this site that what in fact Cerner are offering is an Anglicised version of their American system which can hardlt be construed as new!


6

Poorly informed

14 Jun 06 13:42

A portion of the core system was anglicised but significant work was done on development of new modules and functionality - this was done in conjunction with Cerner, Homerton and Newham.

Oh, by the way I'm a she, not a he.


7

Still poorly informed

14 Jun 06 14:34

I am concerned that the comments from "Poorly Informed" (Ms)suggest that all the problems were with data conversion. I understood that the number of keystrokes that outpatients users were faced with was far more than previously, and that the User Interface needs lots of development. There were few additions to the Homerton system allowed for Release 0, and shortcomings of the system are compounded by the concept of "rigid standardisation", and rushed decisions by the cluster on configuration.


8

National Selection

14 Jun 06 15:02

Is clearly not a darwinian process. If it were the NHS & NPfIT would have selected appropriate system(s) from the outset and many of these would be implemented and evolving by now?


9

Going towards the light---again!

14 Jun 06 15:12

I am not impressed with progess thus far and I have yet to be convinced that anything has delivered good value for money in this project so far- but hey I just must be difficult to please in my old age!

What strikes me is the endless amounts of money being thrown at this and lurching for quick solutions to please the political masters and contract deadlines rather than being objective.

I wonder if anyone has the nerve (I was thinking of another word here) to shout 'STOP' (even if it is for a brief moment), and really consider ALL the available options and make a decision based on what is best to ensure what is chosen will enhance care and not be another all glitz and no knicker millstone that IT in healthcare will have difficultly to recover from. What does Joe public make of 5million clinical overspend compared to the overspread of CfH?

One of the many components for good implementation are experienced staff, and it seems to me that most of these companies are trying to spread those with knowledge too thinly, you cannot implement effectively with a large amount of staff who do not have the depth of knowledge, by all means employ your cheap graduates but it is quality that is needed. Who actually would be the more stupid, the company taking on more when it appears already to be stretched ?, or the purchaser choosing a supplier that is already behind with its work and struggling to meet targets.

Never mind chaps we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.....not sure if it isn't another train though!


10

Do they who sign the contracts really understand?

14 Jun 06 16:37

I really, really hope that whatever analysis is done before CfH permits a change to Cerner takes into account the capacity of Cerner to deliver in more than one Cluster.

Due diligence activities around both Capacity and the Deployment Model did take place in the Fujitsu switch to Cerner but neither of these has come up to scratch.

I'm actually very pleased with the switch to Cerner in the South. A damn good product, and the development of the subsequent releases is going well (alongside the delays in Release 0 deployments), but I'd hate to lose the precious Cerner expertise we do have.

The trick with deciding on a switch will be to take the right amount of time and look in the right amount of detail at the proposition and not rush blinkered into a decision with a shout of "we'll make it work". Although IMHO the grass probably is greener in the Southern Cluster than in London at the moment, a switch to Cerner under the wrong conditions could just drag both Clusters down. Sounds like common sense, but I've learnt not to assume that common sense is being applied.


11

Common Sense

14 Jun 06 20:15

Who was the last person to have 'common sense' and can you ask they where they left it, please?


12

Do Those Who Select LSP Contracts Understand Healthcare and Software?

15 Jun 06 00:19

The London LSP Contract Award was for Capital Care Alliance to start delivering the IDX LastWord software product in an agressively short period of a year. This was the dictat of the National Programme for Information Technology (NPfIT).

This award recognised the marked contrast of the CCA bid to other candidates that offered future software products based on marketing slides and software development over what appeared years.

Some of the few candidates had a UK NHS oriented product but were considered over-extended commercially and 'not scalable' by the NPfIT programme management team (how true their prediction was on the commercial reality).

Others had no track record of working with the NHS to produce a British National Care Record Service across care pathways. (Not just a matter of language but of health care model and terminology). The National Spine was always a problem of scoping and ensuring distributed access and service at the national level of demand for access, security and performance.

An enormous amount of work went into the London LSP selection process backed by proper governance arrangements and large clinical and technical participation. There was inter-cluster support and clarification with National Application Service Providers (NASPs).

The original contract announcement from these negotiations was fully justifiable in December 2003.

However, the move to IDX Carecast in preference to the deployable IDX LastWord was IMHO not a justifiable decision and ignored the LastWord product adaptation to the UK. Instead of moving the UK version of LastWord forward with development and adaptation, a world of futures was been embarked upon by mid-2004.

It may now be too late to go back to the original intent. Lack of realistic commercial terms will have descended over the LSPs. There is nothing like cash flow problems to produce concentration whether you be the private sector or an NHS Trust with financial difficulties. It is obvious that the window for deployment is closing down with the stretched economic resources by Trusts and other care partners. The private sector too well recognises this.

The NHS as an industry must stop being a last man/ woman standing lanscape that is subject to feast and famine and learn to negotiate win-win arrangements for a mutually beneficial and information enabled future for itself and suppliers.

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